Spiritual Warfare Forum: Protestant vs. Catholic Evil Fear

Protestant vs. Catholic Evil Fear QUESTION from Simon on December 20, 2002 Hello
Question 1:
I have talked to a few Protestants on the topic of Demonology, Angelology, Exorcism, etc..
When I've talked to them, they seem to not take as much care as Catholics do, they have a lot more skepticism about the devil's power than I think Catholics do.
A couple reasons why I think this:
I've heard a few Protestants tell me that one cannot be demonically possessed if he is 'right with God'. Is this the case? I know that God must allow the demon to take possession or tempt a human, but God still tests the most faithful, doesn't he? I've read a few accounts of even the most faithful and godly saints receiving vicious attacks from satanic agents and power.
I attend a Protestant school, we have a Christian Studies class obviously... we don't seem to learn much about Satanic Forces, we've touched slightly on the account, all we've really learnt is it's dangerous, they have not really knocked the fear into us that it can lead to possession, and it opens up a keyhole for a demon.. why do they not educate people about this? If they knocked some fear into them, it would probably stop a lot of young people from dabbling into such areas!
Do you agree? What are your thoughts on this?
----
I have a few other questions if you wouldn't mind:
1. Do all catholic and protestant priests have to do some training in exorcism?
2. When God grants permission for a demon to enter a man, can the demon then do what he likes? Is he allowed to stay in the man until he is exorcised, is he allowed to even kill the man? Or will God only allow as much as the man can mentally and physically with-stand?
3. I came across this book on the internet: http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/BEGONESA.HTM - I found it to be nonsense, a girl was supposed to be possessed with Judas (the apostle), her father, and her father's girlfriend. Um, how is it possible for a former human to possess another human? Is this nonsense?
4. I came across this site, http://www.palmyra.demon.co.uk/ii/angels.htm it lists angels and demons names, why is there so much confusion on the standard name list for the seven archangels, I've heard that Protestants only accept Michael and Gabriel, and that Catholics accept Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and possibly Uriel.. could you please give me the Catholic and Protestant standard list.. of the seven archangels, or whichever ones either party accepts as authentic.
5. I know you say it's not important to acquire a demon's name. But I've read it is possible to make the demon tell the truth, to reveal its true name. Does the Catholic authorities have a database of these demons? Do they track their behaviour. Why are you so reluctent to release this list? Don't be offended, I'm just curious
6. Do you believe in layers of hell? The worst sinners are on the bottom layer... and the not so bad sinners are on the top layer, if so, could you explain where this theory originates from, and do you have any information you could link me with?
7. Is there any information in biblical texts which suggest how many angels fell from each choir specifically? Or do we just know it's approximately a third overall?
8. There is some confusion here on the choir lists.. which ones do protestants accept, and which ones do catholics accept? You accept Cherubims, Seraphims, Thrones, Dominations, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels and Angels.. where do you get these from? The Protestants only accept Cherubims, Seraphims, Angels and Archangels, so I've heard, could you possibly confirm this?
9. In hell, do you believe that demons torment you? Inflict pain on you, mock you, etc.. if so, where is this based from?
Anyway, that's enough for now.. it would be great if you could spend the time answering all these, sorry for the vast number.. it's just hard to find respectable and true strictly true information online!
Once again, I really thank you for this fantastic forum and the hundreds of hours of your time you spend answering our questions and enquiries, you ought to be recognized more
- Simon
ANSWER by John-Paul Ignatius, OLSM on December 27, 2002 Dear Simon:
We greatly appreciate your interest in learning more about the Catholic view on the various topics you present. These questions not only inform you, but also are a benefit to our other readers.
However, we need to ask you to post only two or three questions at a time, and no more than once every three days at most. This is to allow us time to spend answering other people's questions in a timely manner. The set of questions you have here is a lot and very time consuming to answer in one setting. Thanks.
On Question 1:
From my experience Evangelicals and Fundamentalists, at least, have a good knowledge of Satan's power.
I would agree that these individuals tend to to take less care on the details of cases -- especially in proper diagnosis.
There are some Protestants who do claim that Christians cannot be demonized, but generally these are people who do not know what they are talking about and have no actual experience in this field.
Of the Protestant deliverance counselors that I know, and I know many of them from all over the world, who have actual clinical experience, all of them attest to the possibility of Christians being demonized.
As for schools not dealing with this subject, many are scared of the subject. That is Satan's plan -- to convince us that the subject is too scary to deal with, or that Satan is not a real person. Perhaps the school you attend has these views.

On to your other questions:
1. Do all catholic and protestant priests have to do some training in exorcism?

Unfortunately there is no formal training for Catholic priest in spiritual warfare or in exorcism. A priest who becomes an exorcist learns the job while on-the-job and perhaps mentored by an experienced exorcist. Some Protestant schools do have classes on spiritual warfare and there are some specific ministries that do training.
The primary Protestant training ministry is probably the Internatoinal Center for Biblical Counseling in Sioux City, Iowa.
Our, ministry, the Order of the Legion of St. Michael, under the project name of the St. Padre Pio Center for Deliverance Counseling is offering training for Catholics.

2. When God grants permission for a demon to enter a man, can the demon then do what he likes? Is he allowed to stay in the man until he is exorcised, is he allowed to even kill the man? Or will God only allow as much as the man can mentally and physically with-stand?

We learn from the Book of Job in the Bible that God does put limitations on what a demon can do to a person. Satan went to God a couple of times asking for permission to hurt Job. God allowed the harm up to the point of Job's life. God forbide Satan to take Job's life. Many of the people who get demonized get that way because of their own sin. Their sin invited Satan in the door of their lives. But God also allows, for reasons only He knows, for even innocents to become demonized. Job was an innocent.
The extent of the demonization, how easy a healing will be is determined by a number of factors including God's plan for the person.
As for taking more than one can stand? God NEVER allows ANYTHING to happen to His children that would be more than they can stand. God affirms this in the Bible. We may think we can't take it, but God knows we can.
We can find comfort in this promise of God, of a God that does not lie, that we will NEVER experience anything that is more than we can take.

3. I came across this book on the internet: http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/BEGONESA.HTM - I found it to be nonsense, a girl was supposed to be possessed with Judas (the apostle), her father, and her father's girlfriend. Um, how is it possible for a former human to possess another human? Is this nonsense?

This book is a case history of a REAL case of demonization and an exorcism. What you read in that book comes from actual transcripts and recollections of the people who were there. The possession of an evil human spirit is VERY RARE and can only happen with the escort of a demon.

4. I came across this site, http://www.palmyra.demon.co.uk/ii/angels.htm it lists angels and demons names, why is there so much confusion on the standard name list for the seven archangels, I've heard that Protestants only accept Michael and Gabriel, and that Catholics accept Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and possibly Uriel.. could you please give me the Catholic and Protestant standard list.. of the seven archangels, or whichever ones either party accepts as authentic.

The only names of Angels that we know are Michael, Gabriel, and Rapheal. All other names are only speculation and myth. The seven archangels are Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Iriel, Johiel, Chamael, Zadkiel, and Jophkiel. Only Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael are certain, the rest are speculation and we should NOT speculate. As for demon's names, we do not really know for sure the name of any demon except Satan himself. In a solemn exorcism the name of a demon will be sought, but outside of a solemn exorcism there is no reason to know names. We can identify and categorize demons by their function, such as demon of lust, demon of anger, etc.
Those who have a thing about discovering the actual names of demons are asking for BIG TIME trouble.

5. I know you say it's not important to acquire a demon's name. But I've read it is possible to make the demon tell the truth, to reveal its true name. Does the Catholic authorities have a database of these demons? Do they track their behaviour. Why are you so reluctent to release this list? Don't be offended, I'm just curious
It is possible to solicit the name of a demon, to ask what his function is, to ask what other demons he is associated with, to ask why they are in the poor person, etc. but this is done only in a solemn exorcism performed by a Catholic Priest, with the permission of the Bishop, in the name of the Church.
Outside of a solemn exorcism, we do not need, and should not seek such information. It is too dangerous and just plainly not needed. If the case is a demon that is too tough to get rid of by counseling means and thus must have a solemn exorcism from the Church, then we leave it to the formal exorcist to get that info.
Having a database is not practical. There are untold number of demons. One may never meet the same demon more than once.
6. Do you believe in layers of hell? The worst sinners are on the bottom layer... and the not so bad sinners are on the top layer, if so, could you explain where this theory originates from, and do you have any information you could link me with?

There is suggestion layers of hell in the work of Dante's Inferno. There is also a hint of layers in heaven that is mentioned in the Bible. Since the spiritual principles are the same, we may postulate that hell may have layers too. But layers or not, it is NOT a place you want to go. As the old saying goes, I'd rather be a private in heaven than a general in hell.

7. Is there any information in biblical texts which suggest how many angels fell from each choir specifically? Or do we just know it's approximately a third overall?

We only know from the Bible that it was 1/3. We do not know and cannot know the specific number.
8. There is some confusion here on the choir lists.. which ones do protestants accept, and which ones do catholics accept? You accept Cherubims, Seraphims, Thrones, Dominations, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels and Angels.. where do you get these from? The Protestants only accept Cherubims, Seraphims, Angels and Archangels, so I've heard, could you possibly confirm this?

There are nine choirs of angels (starting from the top down): 1) Seraphim: distinguished by their burning zeal and love for the Trinity (mentioned in Isa 6:2)
2) Cherubim: angels of wisdom, guardians and protectors at Eden (Genesis 3:24), imaged on the Ark (Exodus 25:18); known for their great knowledge.
3) Thrones: referred in Pslam 9:4; kneel in adoration of God
4) Dominations: crowned for their authority; movers of stars and planets.
5) Virtues: dispenses miracles
6) Powers: power to restrain evil spirits
7) Principalities: leader of the angels who interact with the world. They direct God's commands.
8) Archangels: chief angels mentioned in Jude 6, 9; 1 thess 4:16
9) Angels: interact directly with men, such as guardian angels, etc.

9. In hell, do you believe that demons torment you? Inflict pain on you, mock you, etc.. if so, where is this based from?

Yes, the bible gives such images and we hear about such things from mystics. But the main thing about hell, and the ultimate source of its pain, is eternity without God, an eternity of darkness of one's own making.

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